ADVANCED TRAVEL MACHINE 1909Well, at least the comment person said a `million' - I can barely stand it when someone says 1,000 years ahead of us - with a gasp in their voice. But, since this is where our `air' transportation was 100 years ago (see picture on top of post) - I guess to that person 1,000 years in terms of the `civilizations out there' might indeed seem impressive. But,.................. it's not.
Indeed, the points that Greg brings up in his article about the `alienness' of the aliens is dead on. To fully comprehend what may be going on in our skies and perhaps even in peoples minds (abductions come to mind) - I'd say that to get a grasp on even a tiny portion of that - one needs to take a view of `time' that is truly enormous - almost really, beyond human comprehension. Because, such a view on `aliens and intelligence' would lead the thinking person on into realms involving billions of years - yes - billions.
I would hope that readers of this blog are knowledgeable enough to know that the material that our Sun is made of - and us too - are the remains of a `star' that `blew up' supposedly about 7 billion years ago. I would also hope my readers are aware that science speculates that our Universe is less than 14 billion years removed from the Big Bang event. And, finally, I would hope that my readers are aware that `stars come and go' and that stars (and most likely planets) have been present in the universe nearly all except for the first several hundred million years. But, what readers may not be aware of, is that as soon as the `heavier' elements began to be abundant - it was possible for `life' to be in the universe - a situation that could ONLY happen after the first generation of stars.The long story short is that for BILLIONS of years - life, and indeed intelligent life - may have been present in the universe. Even intelligent live that could have been human like or beyond. So, what ultimately must be considered by folks with an interest in UFO's is that it's possible that entities or intelligences grown from our universe elements may exist in a form appropriate for life forms billions of years old. Indeed, the real question is - how would such life forms present themselves here, on Earth, about 14 billion years after the BB? AND, what could they possibly WANT from a species like human beings?
Greg Bishop in his post points out, and I agree, that they likely don't NEED us for anything, and, would probably have `solved' virtually any `problem' they had with their level of science intelligence. Indeed, if thought about - it makes the one UFO meme that the `aliens' need us for our genetics - seem silly.
Now, this isn't to say that `aliens' wouldn't exist at ALL levels of `timeframes'. Some civilizations could be billions of years old (obviously, they would be wanderers of the universe as their `parent' planet in all likelihood has been gone for eons) - although I expect that number to be quite limited. However, more and more civilizations may indeed be hundreds of millions of years old - and indeed, more would be only several million years old. And, yes, some would indeed, be only a million or even only a thousand years `ahead' of us.
Frankly, I think the odds that an alien race that is presenting itself to humans - is NOT just a thousand years ahead of us. Hundreds of thousands to many millions of years is much more likely. So, let's put ourselves into the position of a `species' that may have more than a million years advancement from humans. (And, obviously, advanced enough to NOT blow up their home planet - at least before leaving it.) What indeed could we expect from a civilization of such age - what would they want their legacy to be? What would they find of interest on planets?
Could it be that `drama' and `humor' - might fit the bill?
Did you know that in 2007 that over 200 star systems had been identified as being within 33 light years of Earth? And, that new ones are being discovered all the time (many of these are brown dwarfs - but - they too could possibly have a habitual zone too) - indeed one system recently discovered was only 12 light years away.
Now, why do I digress into these statistics?
Well, because we have been `broadcasting' to that universe for nearly 100 years. `I Love Lucy' has easily made it to over 500 if not 5000 star systems by now. And, what could be more humorous or have more drama than Human Beings? Could it be that the `things' that are seen in the sky are data collectors for that humor and drama? Would WE not watch such a `program stream' about another planet?
Are Humans Entertainment For Billion Year Old Entities?
Thanks for reading today - I'd love to read YOUR comments. Oh, and don't miss my main blog at http://www.theheavystuff.com/ where I have upwards of 80 posts on the strangest of ideas. Or, if you prefer current weirdness - I have a near daily Squidoo site about the high strangeness in the world www.squidoo.com/AnomalyMan.
Thanks for linking to my post. One of the points that I was trying to argue is that any supposed development of non-human consciousness (not necessarily from other star systems) could not only be "ahead of" or "behind" us, but "off to the side." Their development may have been be in a completely different direction than ours, even if their race is about the same age. They may have developed their minds more than their machines and may be more conversant with psychological and maybe even psychic techniques than we are.
ReplyDeleteWe may be communicating at cross-purposes with them, since their existence could be based on a completely different set of goals, values, and development.
In addition, there may be a consciousness that has learned to navigate an dimension that exists without reference to space or time, making communication even more difficult.
There are many hints in the UFO literature that these scenarios may be fruitful.
Best,
Greg B.
i dont need to read the post. yes. the answer is yes.
ReplyDeleteWell, maybe we are who can say. But you make several assumptions in you argument
ReplyDelete1. 'Life' was not possible before heavier elements could be generated in stars
Why? you are assuming that life and conciousness must be based in physical forms like we have
2. Alien entities would be entertained by human culture.
Not likely, television and other broadcast entertainment are dependant upon cultural context incomprehensible to aliens
Greg,
ReplyDeleteFirst, thanks for your comment and for your post(s) that inspired this one. Your point is well taken about non-human consciousness being different - Indeed, I was going to comment on your post about whale intelligence. (I believe that whale are indeed `ahead' of humans in that regard.) You are probably correct that intelligence could be quite different.
Indeed, a point I didn't make in this post - as my goal was to have folks consider that some intelligences might be 1000 or more times older than a million years ahead of us - was that IF we were to encounter intelligence that was begun a billion years ago - the intelligence that we encounter is likely NO LONGER HUMAN or BIOLOGICAL AT ALL and indeed would most likely be some sort of self-replicating `machine' intelligence `MADE' by biological entities.
Now, as far as different `entity' types that are interpreted as UFO's -- I agree - and indeed I think `entities' are of different types that have a limited access to our time-space reality.
But, ultimately, as my post suggests -- it's also possible that for the 1000's of star systems our `radio-tv' swath has covered in the radius from Earth that indeed it is possible to `send' some sort of `data gatherer' to get those transmissions `live' in a sense. It's those data-gatherers that might be `part' of the UFO mix - but - obviously, not all of it.
MAINLINE YOGA -- Thanks. LOL.
RICHARD - Also, thanks for making the comment. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heavy_elements "Living organisms require varying amounts of "heavy metals." Iron, cobalt, copper, manganese, molybdenum, and zinc are required by humans".
That said, I agree with your comment too - but - would actually say that non-biological intelligence would be more tied to the very phenomenological structure of existence. In my blog The Heavy Stuff - in my own phenomenology - the `able to not be' could be seen as an intelligence or where consciousness could reside without a ` formal space'.
However, my idea about humor and drama is YES, they WOULD `understand' our language and culture (if they can get here they would have translaters that would turn our language into theirs and if the entities were humanlike or similar - they would indeed find humans drama and humor entertaining.
To all - I wrote this not as a comprehensive guide as to the unknown on Earth - I was ascribing one aspect of why aliens may be interested in mankind beyond the typical `we bring you peace' or `we need your minerals' or `genetics'.
Thanks again for all the comments.
The corporatism going on is most entertaining. Should be interesting to watch this development. I suggest you look for .mil type advertisers as they are very interested in what you offer.
ReplyDeleteDidn't you start commenting on ufomystic a couple of years ago? I remember you.
ReplyDeleteInteresting discussion. I don't think I've heard of anyone discussing civilizations a billion years in advance of us.
I have postulated (publicly, somewhere, I think) that after even a few hundred years (if you take humanity as a yardstick) all bets are probably off on exactly what would make us tick.
Perhaps the different entity types reported are more due to our interpretation of them than their "real" appearance etc. If something is so far out of our experience that we can't fully comprehend it, humans are quite capable of filling in the blanks.
You idea of non-local consciousness is something I have written and thought about. It sure would go further toward an explanation of our history of interactions with non-human intelligence.
Greg,
ReplyDeleteYep. I've commented a time or two for sure. I catch most of your stuff thru anomalist.com (regularly, the best listing on the internet for speculative events and thinking).
All this talk about billion year objects is about to inspire a post on The Heavy Stuff. I save my most flipped out stuff for there.
Now, regarding your viewpoint about the seemingly accelerated evolution of humanness. I do agree that if we survive the perils of too much population in the next 150 years or so (few talk about how with women's decrease in birthrate that the world population WILL decrease at some point within 200 years) that humans will have certainly incorporated some of the machine hardware to enhance our senses. But, I would also hasten to add that I think the range of humans as far as incorporating the hardware will vary -- I see a significant part of the population resisting such `improvements'.
To your next point - agreed that it has been shown that humans fill in some to much of the perception data we all take as `real' - but, that said, I think that `objects' that are in our own immediate space -- DO have a `realness' beyond the `realness' of our internal states such as memory and fantasy. I guess what I am saying - is that even `temporary' beings (such as dopplegangers) are more `real' - than `memories' ----- real is the ultimate slippery slope.
Lastly, I think you might enjoy some of my thoughts about Phenomenology too. I bet we both seek some of the same concepts for explanations and understandings. Hey, we can't leave it all to Bruce Duensing can we? LOL.
appreciate the input,
Rick
Earthlings,
ReplyDeletethank you, we got "I Love Lucy".
We would like to bring to your attention that we did leave the appropriate gear with self-extricating instructions on what you call "your" planet and last time we checked, they were still there and some of you have found them.
For reasons too silly to mention here, they were scattered mostly in that part of the "planet" that has, or at least had when we delivered the gear, lots of prime forest, which is where we left most of the bugs and shrubs, too. Have you not come across them?
If not, check with the people often called "shamans" or, if you speak English, a unit called Terence McKenna to receive the gear you are entitled to.
It is fairly self-explanatory, but essentially, we are online most of the time and a few of you have joined us now and then. We have reports that the spores we sent later have arrived on your "planet" and done quite well.
As to the question of what you call "time", that issue is often addressed at our meetings for newcomers and regulars, and still a popular theme. Please refer to our issue "Big bang reportedly smaller than expected" for more background information about this time thingy.
We are sorry to inform you that we are not what you call "entertained" by you.
Next time we stop by with one of our staffed ships we will address the issue in detail and with a slideshow we have prepared.
Apparently, there has also been considerable disinformation regarding our gear.
Take care and watch out for those other guys we told you about.
The MGT
idiotsavant
Eric-I've detailed before in this blog how strong traffic comes from the government. That said, I hardly promote anyones viewpoint.
ReplyDeletethanks for commenting.
jonee- excellent. Again, thanks for your points.
Rick
Great post, and great point that the difference in level of advancement between us an visiting civilizations would be on the order of millions or billions, not hundreds or thousands, of years. But ... if (as I suspect), UFOs and "UFO pilots" represent mechanical data-gathering probes, It is possible that they would have been originally sent out by civilizations during a window of technological advancement more like hundreds or thousands of years in advance of where we are currently, as a kind of long-term interstellar security system. So in a sense, I do think it is possible that visiting alien technology could represent a far less advanced level of technical development than whatever their original senders currently possess (if they even still exist). (I make this argument on my blog.)
ReplyDeleteIs it possible that some humans (amidst all the mushroom people i.e. ref. "Attack of the Mushroom People"; pod people ref. "Invasion of the Body Snatchers" (c.1958), Rhinoceros people ref. Eugene Ionesco's play "The Rhinoceros" etc. ...what do all these weltanschaung metaphors we propagate all over the world refer to ...what do they mean?!) ...are billions of years old.
ReplyDeleteIt is possible that the remainder, the "mushroom people". the "pod people",the "rhinoceroses" "demons" etc., are the projection of just one human being, also billions of years old, dream entities of that human being's psyche expressed in, contained in, incarnated in light matter. You will admit that life would not require light matter to exist, but may use it, or be trapped in it?! Not difficult to extrapolate from known unknowns such as tiny dimensions, dark matter etc.
Such a billions-of-years-old human, whose psyche was riven with lies about reality, Jungian psychology would predict, would project billions of shatters as psychic entities and a dream world like "Underland", as in "Alice in Wonderland" 2009, would result. She could trap other human beings within that mental construct for comfort, entertainment, and self-validation. She would tap into our responses to her dreamworld, her psyche, as in "The Matrix". Other human beings could not resolve her own internal psychic contradictions - we would be her slaves struggling pointlessly to make sense of her psychic world which would seamlessly envelop us and which would appear to be reality.
What appears to be "billions of years", within that mental construct, might be just a few thousand years of experiential time. That would explain the suddenness of civilisation. Billions of pod people, or "Borg drones" and a few trapped humans, and maybe some other deluded human beings believing and imagining that they really are in some way cooperating with "Alice", but to no advantage to themselves, only to their detriment - the world all a nightmare, a bad dream,...a LI-c-E?! ... A land in which we are prisoners, where freedom is a hollywood dream, a dream of something real but existing, in "Underland", as only a memory of the reality that is being denied to us.
Which human being are you? Are you "Alice" or are you her prisoner or her victim? Are you a part of her psyche or are you a separate being?
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ReplyDeleteJane,
ReplyDeleteSee my post on my blog Barf Stew tomorrow (monday) to your thoughtful post _ indeed, I will be re-posting your comment as my main post.
http://barfstew.blogspot.com
Rick